Romans 5:10 Both Jesus and James talks about that. I think not, keeping in mind what it says about these 2 seeds in Matthew 13:20 they received the word (gospel) with joy. / believers that fall away. Yes, you can lose your own salvation, because salvation hasnt happened yet. Persuasion, i.e. Take Thomas for example. His faith was JUSTIFIED by what he did. But all during those years I knew I was doing wrong and felt the call of God all along. Wouldnt that prove that you never were truly saved in the first place? You are correct, I didnt start to really really struggling with my faith until I learned what Calvinism was. Yes, I agree with that statement. But they didnt PRODUCE any fruit. A Christian CANNOT lose their salvation, as both you and Brian point out. So yeah you have to show up at that bus stop but showing up at the bus stop doesnt save you. Keep in mind, the law of Moses did not exist under Noah, either. But I dont think obeying Christ qualifies for what I think youd call Human Works Because your doing what your Master is requiring you to do. Based on the worlds standards maybe, but based on Gods standards I dont have a chance. First of all, salvation hasnt happened yet. That doesnt mean he lost his salvation or proved that he had never believed. Thats not faith. With the power of the Holy Spirit can we humans overcome our internal desires which seek to destroy us? 1 Corinthians 9:26-27 (ESV) So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. OSAS DEBATE (Once Saved Always Saved) - Facebook If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you have to do something to keep your salvation then you are saved because of your works. You got permanently saved at the MOMENT of believing that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that He paid on the Cross for all our sins. Perseverance in faith as a condition for final salvation is indeed meritorious because it changes the object of faith from Christ to self. The law is not of faith, grace not given. THERE is only one true Gospelonly one true message of Christ's death, burial & resurrection (1st Corinthians 15:1-4), based on salvation by grace through faith alone (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2:8-9; Acts. When it comes to scripture I want to bear in mind how the human mind interprets any data. I just believe the freedom to deny Jesus as the Christ does not exist in Gods child because of the new birth (1John 5:1, Phil 1:29). 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. The ultimate external fruit of true salvation is perseverance to the very end. Can a person who comes to faith in Jesus Christ lose his or her salvation? life and death) to people Oops, for claritys sake, the second paragraph of my previous comment should read, Im not saying that all who apostatize were truly saved to *begin* with etc. Hello JT I figured that if one could lose ones salvation or prove that one never had it, unbelief would be how. Do you believe this? Now if it was possible for someone to believe in Jesus-which according to Him means they will never spiritually die, and then they lose eternal life- which means they spiritually die, that would make Him a liar. But the results of the new birth are there for each to see if they really are in the faith. If he. So is "once saved, always saved" true or not? Ephesians 4:30 I think the word sealed is kinda like giving a promise ring to your girl friend. This is not an exhaustive list, but points out perhaps the particularly common sins of the church in Corinth (notice the parallel with the sins listed in the previous chapter in verses 10-11). Earnest, and UNTIL. https://www.theheights.org/sermons. 27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. John 15 is on the same topic as 1st John is. Once Saved, Always Saved? - Grace to You Because Abraham would have thought God to be a liar. This is a roundtable debate between Christian pastors and scholars in front of a live audience at a large church. Hi Leighton, the link to your DTR sermon at Heights Baptist is now broken But it was my choice to do so I knew that what I felt about myself was that I still was lost. Big blessings and thanks! Not even James discusses GOOD deeds. Eternal security is the doctrine that people who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior cannot lose their salvation . This is the evidence and substance of our Faith! What is man's role in salvation? 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? 5 Questions About "Once Saved, Always Saved" - Beliefnet Im not asking for more scriptures on Grace, just an explanation of 1 Peter 2:20-21. So, from the human perspective, unlike God who can see the heart, it may appear one has lost something that he once attained. Yes, you have to DO SOMETHING to keep your salvation. You faith must be LIVED OUT, in other words., To expound, our faith (Hebrews 11:1) must be TESTED/PROVED/TEMPT/TRIED, Genesis 22:1 :-]. What is man I know some people will argue that since the verb believe is in the present tense, one must continue in belief to be saved or to verify that they are saved. So EDD thus becomes the Calvinists most sacred divine truth within scripture. Interestingly enough you cant be estranged from someone you never had a relationship with and you cant fall from something you never had. As long as we are unaware of how God really feels about us individually, we will continue to have these insecurities. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. Yes, based on that alone, you are saved. There are similar statements in 1st John 2:12-14. If Abraham would have told God, NO, due to the request being CONTRADICTORY to the promisewould Abraham STILL be entitled to RIGHTEOUSNESS? Needless to say miraculously I got off all tickets as I retained a lawyer that was a former prosecutor and just managed to have me pay a seat belt violation only again Gods grace. In fact. 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: For example a person can have faith in God or the finished work of Jesus Christ Am I beyond the grace of God like in Hebrews or can I still be forgiven and be saved on the day of Judgment? My salvation is not based on my works before or after I believe. Billy Graham Answers One of the Most Debated Points in Christian While many Christians debate this issue, the biblical evidence supports the view that a believer cannot lose his or her salvation. If Abraham didnt believe Gods promise, would Abraham OBEY God, regarding sacrificing his son, after God promised that his seed would continue through Isaac? By the way, would someone please enlighten me with and alternative explanation to 2 Peter 2:20-21 if it does not clearly read a person who knows their Lord and Jesus Christ can certainly lose Salvation? Johns statement that whoever believes is born of God doesnt prove that whoever is born of God will continue to believe. If Im wrong here I am open to being corrected haha. How do you explain Peter denying Jesus and Thomas refusing to believe and the Corinthian believers practicing sin and Hymanaeus, Philetus and Alexander and those in 1st and 2nd Timothy whose faith was overturned by the teaching of Hymanaeus and Philetus? But doesit say once a person is born again, it is impossible for him to lose his way and be lost? Who is Jesus? 1John gives specific evidences of the new birth, so they can know if they have that everlasting life that comes with it. And you will want to continue to immerse yourself in the promises of God within his love-letters to the church. Hebrews 3:12-14 See to it, brothers and sisters (saved believers,) that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. See to believe. That is a logical contradiction. br.d Interesting! "Once Saved, Always Saved," says that nobody can ever: "Receive the grace of God in vain" (2 Corinthians 6:1) "Bury [their] talents"(Matthew 25:18) "Neglect such great salvation" (Hebrews 2:3) "Look back" after putting [their] hand to the plow (Luke 9:62) From the Strongs Concordance, Earnest: Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 2:8 and Romans 5:1, John 5:24 is another verse where it is clear that the one who believes currently has eternal life and has been made alive. 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Now its possible that there could be time between when the condition is fulfilled and the person is saved. Because it says: 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Lets be like Paul when he addressed this issue in Romans 6. What is it that makes one person see a rabbit in an ink-blot when another person sees a child being sexually assaulted? br.d Jesus says in John 11:25-26 I am the resurrection and the life. Luke 7:50 Hebrews 3:6 He is God, He died on the cross for our sins and rose again, we are sinners and unable to save ourselves and He is able and willing to give anyone who trusts in Him eternal life. John Piper writes this about the doctrine: The true Christian is safe, but his safety is confirmed in his pressing on to make his final inheritance his own. 2) Once you are a believer in Christ, you can later reject his salvation. 1st John is about fellowship with God after salvation, not tests to determine if you are saved. However, from the divine perspective one choosing to walk away from the faith is merelyrevealing externally what has been true internally all along. I wish that people would stop trying to DELETE James statement that faith without works is dead. Assurance isnt based on me proving Im saved or born again but on God keeping His promises of what He causes in me through His new birth. Donahue, Patrick and Morrison, Steve - Debate on "Once Saved, Always Mica, Paul is addressing local churches in Galatia and the local church in Corinth, based on their profession, like any preacher does who cannot see hearts of the readers. Dont tell them to rely on their works post conversion to prove that they are saved. If you dont PRODUCE FRUIT, then you will LOSE it. James 2:18 Is God really going to reward those who do not finish the race strong and live their life to the end for His Kingdom? But the question really misunderstands the biblical teaching about our sin and God's grace in our lives. Praise His Name! If you STOP believing, it means that you left God, and then God subsequently left you. If that is true, what does Christianity have to offer that Mormonism doesnt? I hope this was helpful. OSAS debate . He saved me through Jesus death and ressurection and the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. They might turn away from faith and give appearance of losing their salvation, but if they really are elect they will repent and ultimately return to faith, because God is the One ensuring their salvation. @brdmod Thank you for the iTunes link. Answer Once a person is saved are they always saved? The Bible says over and over that to be saved we must trust in Jesus. Whos faith? John 14:15. I wont even try to expound further. Its future. Is God just bluffing as a means to ensure we do not fall away even though He knows full well we cannot? Otherwise, you also will be cut off. Verse 23 gives us the answer: the completion of our sanctification which is the redemption of their bodies. For those who dont think that you play a part in your own salvation: Philippians 2:12 Whats the hope we cannot see and are waiting with patience for? His work will never fail but our works will fail constantly. Does reconciliation always speak about legal justification before God or can it speak about relationship/fellowship bring restored? I didnt want to be discouraging but to just present the facts of Scripture. Well Mica, I do not believe in perseverance as necessary for assurance, because it does indeed focus on our faith and our works instead of watching what God does in ones life as a result of the new birth. You currently have javascript disabled. God gives us the spirit of discernment and growing up as a Catholic I knew I was not completely following the true scripture.I had a burning desire to know the truth and went from different religion to know the truth God put it on my heart to seek him out. Being right is more important than serving God. Brian speaks of the resurrected body, and free will. Thanks for pointing out another place where living believers are told their salvation was completed in the past haha. BUTa Christian, by his own free will, can indeed FORFEIT their salvation just by CHANGING THEIR MIND. Once Saved Always Saved Debate: How to End It - Writing for JESUS We need to remember the critical difference between the Calvinist and the NON-Calvinist position does not hing upon anything having to do with people or the propensities of people or their willingness or desires or ability to believe etc etc. God demands perfection, not only outwardly with right behavior, but inwardly as well with right motives, desires and thoughts. When He was all I had left, the teaching at that church distorted my view of him so it seemed that even He had turned away from me. Faith justified. Neither can the word BRETHREN (see verse 1). I will continue to overcome the world. And it would have stood for you, had you believed the bus schedule. I cannot dismiss the SHALL BE SAVED verses like you do. And children of God are not only unable to stop believing, they are unable to kick the Holy Spirit out and make Jesus break His unconditional promise, never to leave or forsake (Heb 13:5). In my previous, I had said: Substance: If they were genuine then they were the proof of his apostleship. 2 Peter 2:20-21 (NIV) 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. What is it that you MUST DO? 1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. I even got rebaptised just in case. Eternal life is life that does not end. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?unless indeed you are disqualified. Faith is required for grace. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. Does she fail her because she doesnt acquire a college degree? I cannot live and abide in Christ if i do not know whether he has cut me off or not. That is the way the Calvinist mind is conditioned to read scripture. *God will not be mocked. And therefore, we can indeed chose to leave the faith. http://www.theheights.org/th_gallery/october-27-2013/#.VICIyGTF-rZ, But I found it here on Vimeo if you would like to fix the link: Free Grace holds that it is possible for a true believer to fall away or fall into unrepentant sin or fall into legalism and that they do not lose their salvation or prove that it never existed as a result. Great stuff! Col 1:21-22 But now He has reconciled you by Christs physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. The God of Calvinism purposefully creates the vast majority of human individuals within the total human population specifically for eternal torment in a lake of fire for his good pleasure. That being said I used to hold a similar view in regards to apostasy. And Im sure he put in a LOT of hours WORKING late into the evenings. Where is His victory over sin and our helplessness to acheive righteousness without relying completely on Him? But Gods firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: The Lord knows those who are his, and, Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity. 2 Timothy 2:19. If I heard preaching I would turn the channel and listen to something else.I know for a fact that God does give us choice but he continues to call those who he knows will be receptive to the call.It is not that God stops people from hearing the call its just that they do not want or which to respond to the call. Its taken five years to finally come to grips with the fact that the church was, although they were in a position of authority and far more educated, simply wrong. Because when we have the opportunity to hear the gospel it is the power of the gospel and Gods supernatural voice that we hear. But the text would have to specify that. Because we have choice. Well said! SALVATION is the cure for death. Chris, re. I used to think the same how could someone who has experienced Gods love and forgiveness and grace this way ever walk away from it and then I got hung up in this doctrine and I got my eyes off Jesus and on myself and I would have walked away completely if I hadnt had enough knowledge of apologetics to know Christianity is true. The roots of this teaching go back to a giant of the Protestant Reformation, John Calvin. Lack of sanctification does not prove that justification never occurred. We are justified before God the moment we trust in Jesus for eternal life. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, NOT A RESULT OF WORKS, so that no one may boast.